Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Venerable Paul VI?

 So, it looks like Pope Paul VI is on his way to being cannonized. He  was an odd figure to me. I can barely remember when he died but I do recall that none of the adults seemed sad. They were excited about who the new pope would be but it was as if Paul VI had never existed. Neither the traditional nuns or Sr. Babs, the super liberal nun at school showed any emotion at all. The folks on Father Z's site didn't seem overly impressed.

11 comments:

Joe Potillor said...

This is one of those things that makes me question....I hardly see allowing Communion in the Hand, and destruction of the Liturgy as heroic. The issuing of Humanae Viatae during the time in Church history, yes. I don't know if this is humble of me to say that I don't want Paul VI raised to the altars, just as I was against JPII's beatification at this point....I still think that we're not at a point where we can measure the Pontificate of Paul VI or his person objectively as we're still suffering many of the effects. Ultimately, I'm not the decision maker, and I leave these things to the wisdom of Holy Mother Church, but from what I've seen, I can't say that I agree with Ven Paul VI

Papa Alex said...

Paul VI suffered greatly with the aftermath of Humana Vitae and the Council. he watched thousands of priests leave the priesthood and the majority of the church reject his teaching. To blame him for all the 'innovations' priests took with the liturgy as his fault is ridiculous. The implemenation of the Council has been highjacked. Little of what has taken place since came directly from any council document but 'liturgists' interpretations. He was a 'white' marytr.

susan said...

Dymphna, I saw a comment of yours on another site about Cardinal Midzensky, and I know nothing about this situation and can find nothing on it...would you please consider doing a post on it for those of us trying to get up to speed?...thanks so much and God bless you.

Anita Moore said...

I agree with Joe, and add that to say I don't think Paul VI should be raised to the altar at this time is not the same as saying I don't think he's in heaven (as some come close to suggesting), or that I'm looking for a condemnation of his pontificate. But, like Joe, I don't think we have the perspective from which to judge his worthiness for beatification.

In his book Paolo Sesto Beato? (Paul VI Beatified?), Don Luigi Villa makes some pretty serious charges against Paul VI. CrAlice von Hildebrand, who I don't think is a nutjob, said that this book was distributed to every Italian bishop in 1998, and no one ever demanded that Villa retract any of his claims. The book was written in response to the push to beatify Paul VI. (It is available in English but the translation is pretty clumsy and therefore not an easy read.) I'd be interested to know what has changed since this book came out.

Dymphna said...

Susan, Cardinal Mindszety was arrested and tortured by the Communists in Hungary. He and his supporters felt that the Vatican/the Pope treated him poorly by stripping him of his diocese. It was a compromise with the Communists and the pope had his reasons but the cardinal and his supporters felft betrayed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zsef_Mindszenty

susan said...

Dymphna, thanks for the info and the link. truly appalling. I am so tired of being appalled to my core every blessed day anymore. I have never seen so much so upside down in the world (and even in certain areas of the Church) in my life. May God truly have mercy on us.

And Anita, thanks for the link to a WONDERFUL interview of the great Dr. Alice von Hildebrand. She (and her saintly husband of happy memory) are truly two of the Church's crown jewels. May they be richly repaid for their fidelity and teaching.

Gina said...

Well, let's just keep in mind that he won't become a saint unless the good Lord decides he was worthy of such a title.

I saw the movie promoted on Fr. Z's site. It was on EWTN a few months back. I realize it was a movie and things could've been altered, but I admit feeling a true appreciation for him and his little known pontificate.

So if God decides to grant miracles through his intercession for His own greater glory, far be it from me to breathe a word sideways about the man.

Matthew M said...

Paul VI of sad memory did more in his Pontificate to undermine and destroy the Catholic Faith and Church than anyone else since Martin Luther. I have always been conservative so his passing was a relief. He could do no more damage. May his name be blotted out.

t said...

Nobody here blames Paul VI for 'everything' that went wrong. He gave the boulder a strong push and did little to stand in its way when things went wrong though. He suffered and prayed a lot, but as far as fulfilling his basic duties of state as Pope, well, he was pretty sad. I give up on trying to reason with anyone who thinks this is a great idea.

The process has been dumbed down to the point where people have to come up with lame rationalizations like 'it's about his personal sanctity, not what he actually did.' That's basically what the defense amounts to. I heard this same stuff during the JPII discussion. God rest the souls of Paul, John Paul, and Fr. Villa....

Hans Georg Lundahl said...

The guy culpable for Novus Ordo and new rites of ordination and consecration of bishops.

The guy culpable of pushing NFP in Humanae Vitae.

The man who actually sent pills - which would work as "day after pills" to nuns who had been raped in Congo.

Him a saint?

Hans Georg Lundahl said...

According to Vatican Insider there is a possible miracle being examined:

The alleged miracle involves the healing of an unborn child which was witnessed sixteen years ago in California. During the pregnancy, doctors had found a serious problem with the foetus and because of the effects this problem was known to have on the brain, the only possible solution for the young mother was to have an abortion. The woman had wanted to go through with the pregnancy and entrusted herself to the intercession of Paul VI, the Pope who wrote the 1968 encyclical “Humanae Vitae”. The child was born without any health impairments: the family has to wait until the child reaches the age of fifteen before confirmation of complete healing can be given. But a second unexplainable case of healing – involving a nun diagnosed with a tumour – could also be presented to the Vatican Congregation for examination.

I'd say the mother was more of a saint herself, using the good parts of Humanae Vitae without being corrupted by the bad ones.