Saturday, June 10, 2006

Men and women are different ---example #568,127

When I saw this picture of a the Mexican World Cup soccer uniform on a statue of Baby Jesus I was annoyed. First, because putting a profane outfit on Baby Jesus is a cheesy thing. Second, because I hate soccer. I'd rather watch ants fight or the grass wither. A little football or baseball uniform would've been just as cheesy but at least it's not soccer...

My husband Rocky, on the otherhand, saw the picture and began a 20 minute discourse on the Child Jesus and what games He might have played in Nazareth. Rocky, wondered if little Jesus simply let His friends win games or if He always won because after all He was God and knew all the plays anyway. Did angels hover around and block shots for Him or did Mary and Joseph flat out refuse to let Him play any game that might give Him a bruise or scrape? After his discourse he turned to me and asked "What do you think, Dym?" I just stared and marvelled.


Screwtape said...

I received an e-mail from you with a no-return address, so I am replying to it here. (I have shown you my address, you show me yours.)

So here is my answer to your query.

Ah, you ask a good question, and as of the moment I do not have an answer. But, I'll ask our priest tomorrow at Mass.

We are fortunate that in Salt Lake City we have a Mass twice a month. It's across the valley, so I have to drive about 10 miles, but that's nothing compared with those who drive all the way from places like Idaho Falls, ID, and Rock Springs, Wyoming.
Our priest, who is not SSPX, but works under their auspices, flies in from LA. He's only in his mid fifties, but has had a stroke that prevents him from even kneeling, so the trip here is very hard on him.

We obtained the Mass here because some really dedicated people, about 30-40, petitioned to have one, approximately twenty years ago, and the SSPX complied. We do not have a chapel, so have to rent a large room at a local Crystal Inn Hotel. We are called "Our Lady of Fatima Mission" because one of the members arranged to bring to Salt Lake the statue of Our Lady that was "touring" at that time, either from Fatima or from Father Gruner's Headquarters, I'm not sure which.

I will make the necessary inquiries.

Meantime, you're in a difficult position because the Society definitely rejects the indult Masses, for good, but complicated reasons, and I think they look with less than favor on the "Independents". However, in these hard times I think that it would be perfectly okay to go to an Independent Mass as long as the priest is valid. We help financially to support a Sion Abbey in Copper Hill, Virginia 24079, P.O. 350, run by a Father Francis Edward Nugent. That would be a good place to go, if feasible. You might wish to contact him.

My wife and I, having been through a comparatively "orthodox" Novus Ordo experience lasting five years (we even went through RCIA – ugh!), have definitely concluded that the NO farce is neither a Mass nor is any of it valid because, among many other things, they change the words of Christ in the Consecration. At least this is always so in the English vernacular. That would mean not only should one not attend it, but to do so would be blasphemy because one would be in adoration to a piece of ordinary, unchanged bread. 'Twer better to stay home, methinks, and do a Spiritual Communion than to attend a Novus Ordo of any kind.

Thank you for the question and I'll see what I can find out.

Meanwhile, may I add to your movie and book list.

Movies that are superb for a variety of reasons, even though they star the poor wretch, the late Mr. Brando, are On the Waterfront and A Streetcar Named Desire.
Also, you must include A Man For All Seasons, a wonderful portrayal of the martyrdom of St. Thomas More. If you can find it, The Tenth Man by Graham Greene (his earlier novels are also rather marvelous) is wonderful (it actually ends with a pietà metaphor) starring Anthony Hopkins and Derek Jacobi (probably the best living British Actor).

As for books, by all means the complete œuvre of Evelyn Waugh (begin with Brideshead Revisited and his so-called War Trilogy) and the novels and other books by the, alas, late Alice Thomas Ellis. Don't start with The Summer House (even if, or maybe especially because, they made it into a movie).

Yours in the Faith,
Neil G. Barclay (aka Samizdat)

Vir Speluncae Catholicus said...

Hey Dymph, Excellent post. I'm still laughing! I think your husband is exactly right!

That got me to thinking... if Jesus had played baseball, would He bat 1.000? Or due to His duality, would He only bat .500?

Ask Rocky. I'll bey he knows!

Also, for Simizdat, the SSPX mosr certainly does NOT "definitely rejects the indult Masses". That, dear sir, is a myth. The SSPX may caution concerning the indult, but does not "definitely reject".

Dominus vobiscum,

Christine said...

I think Jesus would have been the coach :o)

Screwtape said...


Uh, I guess it depends on whom you talk to. I knew one dedicated SSPX participant who went to an Indult - as did my wife and I for about four years.

But another lady in the SSPX told us that any Mass but the SSPX was verboten. I just took her word for it, inasmuch as she is usually the best informed.

My guess, until any official word comes down, is that you are right. But the suspicion is that the Indult was begun to thwart, as it were, the Society. Of course, that didn't work.

The primary reason for not liking it is that it is totally redundant. No Indult was required, and an Indult implies that permission is necessary, which is a lie that even Rome now admits.

I apologize for my vehement and over-positive response.

We no longer have a choice where we live - the Indult was removed from Salt Lake as soon as then Bishop Niederauer was ensconced. Now he's moved on to the gay pastures of San Francisco, and, anyway, the only priest who would say the Latin Mass is no longer living. We have no Independent priest anywhere in the vicinity. So if our tiny SSPX Mission folds, it's down to no Mass at all and the Spiritual Communion.

Again, while it may be the Society accepts attendance at an Indult Mass, it definitely discourages it mostly for reasons limned above.

Screwtape said...


I am putting this information on this posting because it is the first in line, not because of the subject. Regarding which, you are correct and the others are playing a very dangerous game (no pun intended). I got royally BLISTERED by a Novus Ordo priest, yet, one time when I let him know that once in a while I brought a little humor to the subject of God; a joke here and there, whatever. He concentrated my poor little mind mighty fast and in no uncertain terms. There is no such thing as getting light about things where God comes into them without committing the sin of blasphemy (mortal, and after despair, the deadliest). I know that Chesterton maintained Christ has a sense of humor, but there's a distinction between that and our being humorous about Christ.

Also, if you'll pardon me, all the "jokes" were just plain stupid.

Okay. I talked to our Priest, Father Brian Hawker (chosen as one of those (none of whom are SSPX members) who give explanations in a book put out by the Society, as to why they chose not to say the Novus Ordo Mass, and he said there are two places where SSPX Masses are held. He's not sure, but he believes one is in Richmond and is celebrated by an Independent Priest under the auspices of the SSPX. He thinks there's a possibility it is offered every Sunday because the priest is resident. For information, you might contact the number listed below for Mass in another location.

There is an SSPX Mass in Norfolk at Immaculate Conception Mission, Doubletree Hotel, 1900 Pavilion Dr., Virginia Beach VA 23451, Phone 757-426-3185, Sun, 4:00 PM.

Now, two things. He's quite sure it is not held every Sunday because the priest has to be flown in (I believe he said from New York.) Also, the phone number listed would more than likely be that of the Coordinator of the Mission and not the number of the Hotel.

As for the Indult Mass, he said the Society, while they know it goes on and is not considered a sin of any kind, very definitely strongly objects to attendance, precisely for the reasons I gave before. Another reason is that one can never be certain what is going to be done; the priest is free to conduct the Mass as he wishes. Judging from the one I assisted at, by a very conscientious priest, what you get is at best a hybrid. It was a Low Mass one of those communal things where "the People" say nearly everything the priest does and a lot of Latin is left out.

I hope this helps.

Dominus Vobiscum
Neil G. Barclay

Former Altar Boy said...

samizdat said:
"So if our tiny SSPX Mission folds, it's down to no Mass at all and the Spiritual Communion."

What kind of Catholic are you? If you can't go to a Tridentine Mass, you don't go at all? Have you ever heard of your "Sunday obligation"? The One True Church isn't a buffet line -- either you sign on to all of it or you chose to be either heretic or a schimatic. If you can't attend a Latin Mass, get thee to a (gag) New Order Mass, unless you claim to know more than the Church and say it is not a valid Mass, in which case you are (see the two choices above).

Carolina Cannonball said...

I was thinking Jesus would probably be a surfer... since he was so good with water, ya know. Plus, according to most protestants & a few Franciscans I know, he was a hippy.

Screwtape said...

Well you see, former alter boy (what decade?), there is this little thing called truth and a hippy named Paul told us to, uh, sort of, I mean like you know, man, stick to it.

The Novus Ordo racket is a bunch of highly demonstrable and fully documented pocketfull of lies. You're saying we should stick to lies even if they calls 'emselves THE Church.

This is precisely, indubitably, exactly, unquestionably, what the Antichrist will do.

Samizdat answers all questions and straightens out all topsy-turvy brains.

Next time, though, there will be a small fee.

Unknown said...

It's now April 4, 2014. What happened to Fr Francis Nugent of Syon Abbey? the internet does not say. Does anyone know?. He was acquainted with Archbishop Lefebvre.